Q. What does the number associated with a turnout mean? What's the difference between, say, a #4 turnout and a #6 turnout?
The number is based on the angle between the straight and diverging tracks. Skipping the exact definition, a #4 turnout is generally the sharpest practical size and is equivalent to an 18" curve. #6s
and #8s are more gradual and are typically used on larger layouts both because they look more realistic and because longer equipment will work better on them.
Traction models and models in the smallest scales (N and Z) can often get good results with much smaller turnout numbers, down to #2.5 in common usage.
What problems can I have with switches and how do I avoid them?
I have found problems with Atlas switches. The flangeways don't seem to be deep enough through the frog, and the large plastic frogs can cause engines to stall. Also, the switch machine housing
sticks up too far, and can entangle steam locomotives with wide draft gear.
Use Peco or Shinohara turnouts for N scale; they run and look much better. Also, if you are nailing down the track, allow a little room under the nail head for the switch to "float"; putting the
track nails all the way in can distort the rails.
My first fault was that I tacked down the turnout. If the turnout is allowed to "float", it will operate better.
Second, use a jeweler's file, and file the points of the turnout, this was described in MR a few years ago.
The third thing I did was to get rid of the N scale electric switches. I was lucky that my local hobby shop took them back. I traded them in for the HO below ground throws, and some piano wire. I
clipped the plastic pin off at the base but before the cone on the HO machine. I then cut the piano wire about 2" long, then using an iron, heated the piano and forced it into the cone stub. I then
installed the machine, with the piano wire fitting in to the turnouts throw bar (between the rails). Once the machine was secured to the underside of the layout, I then trimmed the piano wire (about
.05) above the throwbar.
These made the turnouts not only work better but also look better. For a finishing touch, I cemented pieces of ties (left over from flex track) next to the turnout for switch stands.
Where do you put the switch machines so that you can not see them?
You put them under the layout, Drew...then wire them back to the ;control panel...then there's a wire hickey that runs from underneath ;the layout to the switch-turnout on top of the layout...really
makes ;it nice to sit there and change the path of the train 20-ft away
Big John
Also...see an issue of the NMRA "Bulletin" from last summer...a modeler who mounts the switch machine to the side of Atlas turnouts as intended...then buries them in scenery made of masking tape and
ground foam. Theyre invisible...the linkage is dead simple to install...and you can get at them with a craft knife if you need to fix anything and patch it up invisibly later.
Bud Lowell
I have some rule and thoughts about SHINOHARA turnouts. First, never violate rule number one.
RULE NUMBER ONE
NEVER depend on the points to route power.
Points route wheels, not electricity. This is an old principle in model railroading - one that SHINOHARA invites you to violate. The first thing we do with WALTHERS (SHINOHARA) code 83 turnouts is to
REMOVE the phosphor bronze tabs that are attached to the points and supposedly slide under the stock rails. These contacts will always be:
- Too loose, then they don't make contact.
- Bent up too much, then they jam things up.
They are a disaster waiting to happen. It appears that this is your problem. If so, you got lucky. These "contacts" will eventually fail anyway.
With the contacts gone, you must switch electrical power by some other means. The use of high torque, slow motion motors, does place constant pressure between the points and stock rail so helps.
However, a micro grain of contaminate will cause problems so you must use the electrical switch.
You have some choices.
1. You can wire the switch you use to throw the turnout motor so that it changes frog polarity. The one post does indicate this.
2. You can use the contacts, on TORTOISE slow motion motors, to switch polarity. However, as CIRCUITRON conservatively notes, you should use a relay to actually switch the power - especially with
command control.
3. You can use micro switches with HANKSCRAFT (SwitchMaster or American Switch∓Signal).
4. If your switches are manually operated, you can arrange a micro switch to be actuated by the tiebar. CABOOSE INDUSTRIES makes a ground throw with contacts. Due to low current rating, you must use
a relay with these.
With any choice you will need the separate wire to the frog. I don't think I understand the gaps mentioned in the other post. You will need gaps unless both routes are powered only from the point end
of the turnout. However, if they worked before, as you indicate, no more gaps are needed.
Methods of wiring track are explained in detail In Westcott's or Sperandeo's books - available from Kalmbach. Many other such sources are available.
Ross Allen
Peco Code 75 Points: A usefull discovery...
Warning: Not knowing the following cost me one point motor and one point...
I laid some track recently but had been having problems with three points, the SSEP point motors seemed unable to throw the points in one direction and in one case both. I had tried most things,
clearing out the hole in the baseboard, mounting the motor on washers (failure to do this with an SSEP causes all sorts of problems..), much measuring of load voltages and nearly buying a CDU...
Earlier today I reached a conclusion, the springs were too strong in the points (the three points were noticably harder to shift by hand with no motor attached), looking at the point there is a
little oblong hatch with two clamps on it in the middle of the mouth of the point, if you gently loosen the little clamps you can slide back the oblong box reducing the spring tension !
It's not mentioned in the instructions at all and I've never seen it mentioned on either groups, 2 mins of work later and all problems gone !
2 warnings... dont take the little box off the point, the spring is really small and very fiddly to get back in ! (yes I tried it !) Don't release the spring tension too much or you will get
electrical contact problems, a .5 - 1mm shift solved the problems on all three.
Chris Packman
I've found it's not neccessary to loosen the clamps. Use a flat blade screwdriver inserted between the tie bar and spring housing, just turn gently and the housing moves back. Adjustment the other
way can be achiever using a screwdriver between the housing and next sleeper. Originally I used to loosen the clamps and then pinch them back down but determined this was too much messing around.
Also be very careful with ballasting. On our club layouts I've had to spend a lot of time with dental picks clearing around the point blades and the recess into which the contact tab goes (these will
be redundant once the wirings completed to switch the frog using a microswitch, but we've got a show this weekend and I'm out of time).
Chris White
I use the underground switch machine with Micro Engineering N turnouts. I found they do needed a slight modification. If you trim off the plastic rod and insert a small piece of piano wire into
the base it works fine up to 2" under the track. I used a soldering iron to heat the piano wire and shoved it into the plastic. Trim the piano wire once installed.
ASCII graphic:
Cut plastic to base Insert wire into base
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Randy
I have two engines that we are using. One is an old engine that is relatively heavy and the other is a cheap toy store engine. The heavy engine's outside wheel will get behind the turnout inside
rail and go the wrong way. The lighter engine has no problem with the turnout. After examination it looks like since it is a curved turnout the heavier engine's weight is causing the outside wheel to
squeeze through. What can I do to keep the heavier engine from messing up? It doesn't happen with all turnouts only two or three.
Three things to check. One, get an "NMRA Standards Gauge" (from any hobby shop) and check the gauge of the wheels on the problem locomotive. If one of the wheelsets is too wide, it could "pick the
points" (which is what is happening).
Secondly, does the truck that's derailing swivel freely, and ride level on the track. If there's any misalignment in the trucks, or a bind that doesn't let it turn freely, it will LOOK for any flaw
in your trackwork to cause trouble.
The last, and in my experience most likely problem is in the adjustment of your switch machine. Are you using turnouts that came with a switch machine installed? (i.e. Atlas or Roco for example)? The
switchmachines that come with these often are not very powerful, and may not exert enough force on the points to hold them closed. The only solution there would be to go to either a POWERFUL "Twin
coil" (i.e. NJ International or {IMHO the best} Precision scale (the old Kemtron X-250), or a turnout motor like the tortoise or others. These, when properly adjusted, will do a much better job of
holding the points closed.
Don Dellmann
You might try using a small needle file on the moving point rail of the turnout...filing the point rail to insure a smooth way for wheel flanges.
Jeff Meadows
I ran into a problem tonight. I thought I would locate my turnouts on my layout and drill the holes for the remote wires to go down through. The problem is, I have just over 3" of foamboard material to go through before I hit the 1/2" plywood base! Placed as far out in the chuck as possible, my drill bit will only cover about 2" of that depth. How do I get the other 1-1/2 inches? Does someone make longer drill bits for such a purpose? I have a really long drill bit for drilling through sub floors and such, but it's too large in diameter (about the size of a coaxial cable) to be useful in this instance. Any suggestions appreciated! (But please don't suggest drilling half-way from the top, and half-way from the bottom... I know I'd NEVER get those to line up! LOL!)
What if you came at it from underneath ...
Use the coax bit from below (through the plywood) and meet in the middle. If it's only for threading wires and not positioning remote switches ...
Will it really matter that the hole is bigger through the plywood?
You can get drill bits as long as you need them. You might have to go to a tool place to get them though.
Use the larger bit. Plug the hole from the top with some paper and patch
when you get to the scenery and ground cover stage. You'll never know there was a hole large or small.
Drill up from the bottom through the plywood, then finish the hole, still from the bottom using a piece of brass rod or tubing as a drill bit to go through the foam.
You'll still have fun trying to locate it in exactly the right spot from the bottom, but you won't have the problem of lining up two holes.
I got one in 3/16 or so a long time ago; about 9" long and it wasn't too pricey. Even if it's too small (and you could get a larger one) you coule use it as a pilot hole for running a large drill in from both ends. Plenty big enough for feeder wires, though.
I've also used an abrasive wheel in a motor tool to cut bits out of piano wire in various lengths, including down to .020 wire with the resultant bit being about a foot long for drilling cast plastic stanchions for railings.